This is my
latest composition in the Rapture series - looking for comments and criticisms
- but please make them specific, addressing particular points and scripture
applications: I can do nothing with "I don't like what you
said". (Contact author via URLs at the bottom)
Rapture #15 - answer to
an objection against the Pre-Tribulation Rapture; which objection is
derived from the phrase,
"except those day shall
be cut short, there shall no FLESH be saved"
The below article is a defense of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture Doctrine
February 7, 2003
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The PRE-WRATH Rapture doctrine
teaches that the "catching away" of the Saints from the earth that is
predicted in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 happens sometime AFTER the Antichrist
gains power in the world - so that the Saints "who are alive and remain"
at the end of this age are subjected to organized persecutions that are
instigated BY THE ANTICHRIST.
1 Thessalonians
4:13-18
But
I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are
asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For
if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in
Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word
of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord
shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall
descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the
trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we
which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds,
to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the
Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
I cannot help but comment here..... that there is not much
"comfort" in thinking that we are headed for persecutions and
executions under the Antichrist - while there is abundant comfort in
anticipating a complete escape from the Tribulation Period. (Luke 21:36)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
These are the texts where the "shortening of the days" is
mentioned:
(Mat 24:20-22
KJV) But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither
on the sabbath day: {21} For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not
since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. {22} And except those days should be shortened,
there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days
shall be shortened.
(Mark 13:18-20
KJV) And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter. {19} For
in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the
creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. {20} And except that the Lord had shortened
those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he
hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
THE PRESUMPTION of the Pre-Wrath-Rapture advocates has always been that
the above verses refer to a shortening of the amount of time that
Christians shall have to endure the horrors of the what we generally call
"The Tribulation". Pre-wrath advocates (and the defenders of
the old and now forgotten Mid-Trib scheme) say that "the elect" in
this place means the Saints that are still alive on the earth when the
Tribulation Period begins. The "shortening of the
days" they interpret to mean that Christians will have to endure
"less days" of the Tribulation Period than the
non-Christians.
Now I wish to point out here, before I begin to parse the language in the
texts above, that Post-Tribbers and Pre-Wrath advocates seem to be willing to
take the slightest POSSIBLE hint of a problem with the Pre-Trib scheme
as an unanswerable proof of their doctrine. This represents to me
that their arguments are mostly undergirded either by FEAR of the
future, or by a cyncical view of God - and anything that can feed that
fear or cynicism in any way they seem to regard as IRREFUTABLE
PROOF of their doctrine.
BUT the texts DO NOT SAY anything about length of The Elect's endurance
of those days - it speaks of what happens to "the
days" - not of what happens to "the elect".
The "days" could be "cut short or lessened"
whether The Elect were on the earth or gone from the earth. If Jesus had
MEANT for this to indicate The Rapture, He used very odd language to say that.
Jesus
does NOT say "Lest NO SAINTS be left alive for the Rapture, the Lord
will take them out before The Tribulation kills them all"..... BUT
THAT IS EXACTLY what the Pre-Wrath advocates want these texts to say.... isn't
it?
So let me begin by pointing out what the above texts about "shortening the
days" DO NOT SAY:
They say NOTHING about any resurrections or Raptures. Look again -
check the context further if you wish. There is NO MENTION of any Raptures,
resurrections, catching away, trumpets being blown, or voices from Heaven in connection
to this "shortening of the days".
They say NOTHING about "saving/rescuing" THE SAINTS. All that
is said to be the result of this "shortening" is that some FLESH
shall be saved. This "flesh" is saved for
the elect's sake. These verses also do NOT say that 'the FLESH of the
elect' is the FLESH that is saved. What is
"saved" (rescued; preserved) here is "some FLESH".
The first ERRANT PRESUMPTION of the Pre-Wrath position on this matter is that
there can be no one called "the elect" left on the earth after the
Rapture. I assert that there will be after-Rapture
conversions, and these are "the elect" that will be persecuted
by The Antichrist.
The FIRST (big) PROBLEM for the Pre-Wrath analysis of these texts is:
(1 Cor 15:51-53
KJV) Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we
shall all be changed, {52} In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last
trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible,
and we shall be changed. {53} For this
corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
SINCE we who are alive and remain to the coming of the Lord are
immediately transformed into new and glorified bodies.... and it is those transformed bodies
(and not the "old flesh") that are Raptured...... what can
"saving some FLESH" have to do with the Rapture
of the Saints? How is God going to "SAVE THE FLESH" of
the Saints by Rapturing them off the earth? Does not "flesh"
here mean "natural bodies", such as we and the beasts have in common
on the earth? Will God Rapture some crippled Saint out of a wheelchair
into the heavens still crippled? Will the Raptured Saints
(the "elect") arrive in the clouds to meet the Lord Jesus IN THE
SAME (flesh) bodies they had BEFORE the Rapture? (1 Cor
15:50 KJV) Now this I say, brethren, that flesh
and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit
incorruption.
So... (answer this question!)... The days of the tribulation
are cut short so that "whose or WHAT flesh"
shall be saved? The flesh of the Elect? Is God going to
"save the flesh" of The Elect at the Rapture?
The NEXT PROBLEM for the Pre-Wrath position on these scriptures is derived from
their own premise - for they say that Matthew 24:22 SAYS
that Christians will be here for the days
of persecution that precede "the Days of Wrath" - but that
they WILL NOT BE HERE for the really horrible events like the poisoned
seas or the hundred pound hail: but that is NOT what those
texts SAY. They SAY: For in those days shall be
affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God
created unto this time, neither shall be. The
days that are "shortened" or "cut short" are these days
- NOT some previous days. The language in the text implies
that "some" FLESH (whatever is
meant by that term) will NOT be destroyed by all
these unprecedented calamities. This does not agree with
idea (advocated by the Pre-Wrath position) that Christians are spared ALL those
events! If such language indicates the Rapture, than the Christians have
to endure (at least) SOME OF those events, but not all of them.
Please read the above texts again: "Those days"
are those days of great tribulation, such as was not since the
beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
This does NOT sound like the gradual wind up to the ascendancy of the
Antichrist - it sounds like FULL BLOWN TRIBULATION to me.......
THE NEXT PROBLEM for the Pre-Wrath position in these texts is in the specific
reference to SABBATHS in the Matthew account. What does a Jewish
Sabbath have to do with Gentile Christians in other lands, who do not observe a
Jewish Sabbath? Almost every business and facility is open and
operating on Saturday in the Gentile Christian lands..... how can a Jewish
Sabbath impede "our flight"? But CERTAINLY, within Israel,
where nearly every gas station and business and public service is closed - a
mass exodus from the city on a Sabbath day would be a real
problem. Make sense?
Now
we come to the critical term "shortened" - and the
Pre-Wrath advocates say that this means that the length of the Tribulation
Period will be "shortened" for the Saints, by
Rapturing them off the earth BEFORE the really terrifying judgements begin.
But the Greek word here does not mean "lessened" - as if to
remove part of a quantity so that there is less remaining. The
Greek word here is kolobow ; which word
means to "cut off - to abridge; curtail; shorten". Even that word is
a derivative of another word kolazw - which means to "lop, or chop
off"; or "to curb; check; restrain".
When we say that "So and so was talking until he was "cut
short", what we mean is, that he was interrupted in the midst of his
speech - and I say that the word for "shortened" here means
"ended suddenly and precipitously". It does not man
"less days" rather than " more days". In
other words, I say that this verse predicts the SUDDEN end of
The Great Tribulation. The horrors of The Great Tribulation will only
build and build until SUDDENLY - they stop. That is how I read and
interpret Matthew 24:22 and the Synoptic verse in Luke. THAT is the only
explanation for these verses that comports with idea of "saving some
FLESH". It is not the souls of the Saints that are
saved by this sudden ending, but what is saved by the sudden and unexpected
curtailment of the Tribulation horrors is animal life (including people) on
the earth.
Matthew 24:22
from The New English Bible (1961)
If that
time of troubles were not cut short, no living thing could survive: but
for the sake of God's chosen it will be cut short.
Matthew 24:22
Darby Translation (1879)
and if those days had not been cut short, no
flesh had been saved; but on account of the elect those days shall be cut
short.
The
sense of the phrase is clear (to me) - that the except those days be
somehow abridged, cut off, curtailed and suddenly stopped (not allowed to
continue) that NO FLESH (men or even beasts) would be left alive on the earth.
It reads the same in the KJV:
(Mat 24:22
KJV) And except those days should be shortened, there
should no flesh be saved:
but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
FLESH does not = SAINTS. But
yet it must be presumed (that FLESH=SAINTS) in order to
make Matthew 24:22 refer to the time of the Rapture. The Pre-Wrath
position MUST have "flesh=saints" and
"saved=raptured". That requires quite a stretch of the
language. Allow me to reword the verse so that it SAYS what the
Pre-Wrath opinion wants this verse to say:
And
except the Lord had raptured out the saints before the tribulation ran it's
full course, there would be no living saints left to rapture, so, for the
saint's sake, God has shortened the amount of the tribulation that the saints must
live through. Have I got that
about right?
IT IS NOT the "saints" that will be
saved by the shortening of the days, but some "flesh".
Nowhere else does the Bible use the word "flesh" as a label
for Saints. Characteristically, "the flesh" is used in the
NT to refer to the lower, natural and unconverted nature of men. How is it that
now, the The Saints are called "flesh"?
In other words, except those days (of the GREAT TRIBULATION) should be
"cut off" (at the height of their ferocity), NO FLESH (men or
animals, too?) would be "saved" (survive; endure) to enter the
Millennial Age. The benefit to The Saints is that "some FLESH"
will be preserved, and that flesh will be the natural born men and
beasts that survive The Tribulation to live on in the
Millennium.
"If the storm did not stop, we would all have been killed" is the
sense in which I read this text. Picture The Great Tribulation as
a sudden terrible storm that blows over buildings and threatens to
wear down and tear down everything beneath it until suddenly,
it JUST STOPS.
Contextually and lexicographically, the word "shortened" here means
"ended precipitously and suddenly; curtailed; cut off in mid
stream". I am saying that the Great Tribulation ENDS SUDDENLY
and precipitously. If it were to run it's natural course, so that it
"winds down as it built up", there should NO FLESH (not
souls) be saved. No animal or man would survive it. In order that
"some FLESH" should survive, The Great Tribulation suddenly ENDS,
right when it's at it's peak.
Now particularly, the "human flesh" to be saved in this
particular case seems to be "Jewish flesh" because of the
Sabbath reference - which would confine the specific reference here to Israel
and Jerusalem. IF the Great Tribulation did not SUDDENLY STOP/END WHILE
AT IT'S PEAK, no "flesh" of natural born Jews in the land would
survive. (this of course presumes as I do, that there are natural born
men on the earth during The Millennium).
It does NOT say "lest no Saints be saved".
It does NOT say, "Lest no SOULS be saved".
It does NOT say, "Lest no one be Raptured".
It says, "lest NO FLESH should be saved".
CONTEXT
Mark 13:14-20
14
But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the
prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the
mountains:
15 And let him that is on the
housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing
out of his house:
16 And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to
take up his garment.
17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give
suck in those days!
18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.
19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from
the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall
be.
20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no
flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath
shortened the days.
Sure does look like and sound like a specifically Jewish problem to
me....... and (again), only Israeli Jews could possibly be at greater risk for
such an event happening on the Sabbath.....
Matthew 24:15-22
15
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel
the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any
thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his
clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give
suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither
on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the
beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no
flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
In both places, and in both cases, the warning appears to be specifically
directed to the Jews who will be living in "Judaea" (Israel) at that
time.
These events happen AFTER "the abomination of desolation"
is set up - and this has always been taken to announce the beginning of the worst
parts of the Tribulation Period. The days that are cut-short are the
days of great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the
world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. The Pre-Wrath
notion that the "shortening" of the days refers to total escape
from the latter, more horrific portions of the Tribulation cannot be sustained
from these passages. If The Saints are here for ANY of these things, then
they are here for SOME of the great tribulation, such as was not since
the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
SUMMARY
These
veres say NOTHING about any resurrections, raptures, trumpets blowing or voices
of Christ or angels summoning anyone.
These veres say NOTHING about "saving" THE SAINTS (personally) from
any danger.
These verses speak only of saving some FLESH -which means animal bodies;
animal life (including human life).
These verses seem to be specifically directed to people living in Israel
- the ONLY people in the world that would be particularly
inconvenienced by the need to flee on a Saturday Sabbath day are
Israelites. Only people living in Israel would need to be concerned about
anything that takes place on their Sabbath Day. The reference to winter
also seems to geographically confine the specific place that is addressed in
these passages - I spent most of my life in Southern Florida, and there is
no winter there to speak of.
IF then, it is correct that this shortening or
"sudden ending" of The Tribulation is so that SOME FLESH (man
and beast) will survive on the earth into the Millennium, we may ask, "To
what benefit will this be for the resurrected and raptured Saints?"
WELL - that all depends on what you think the Millennium is; what it's like;
who will be there what they do there..... but certainly, there would be nothing
good about returning to an earth that is utterly devoid all animal life.
If everything living on the earth was destroyed, God would have to
re-create animal life again from nothing, just as he did in The
Beginning. The Bible predicts a Millennial Earth with animals on it (and, natural
born men).
Isaiah 65:18-23
18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that
which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a
joy.
19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of
weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man
that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years
old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant
vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and
another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine
elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they
are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.
(Isa 65:25
KJV) The wolf and the
lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and
dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my
holy mountain, saith the LORD.
We see here described an earth, in which men ordinarily live longer
than one hundred years, and yet, there is still death and there are still some
sinners in the earth. The only way
that such a situation could exist, would be if natural born men continue on
into the Millennium. In order for natural born men to continue on into
the Millennium, some have to survive all the way through The Tribulation - or
else - God will have to re-create men from nothing again, and we would have to
replay the original fall of man in the Garden of Eden in order for these
natural born men to be sinners and subject to death. Such a notion (the
re-receation of men in a fallen state or a replay of the original temptation
and fall) is preposterous; even ridiculous. Therefore, it must be
presumed that some natural born men survive the Tribulation and continue
on, marrying and begetting children into the Millennial Age.
FINALLY - it appears that the main premise of the Pre-Wrath opinion is that NO
ONE CAN OR WILL BE CONVERTED AFTER THE RAPTURE. This presumption is absolutely
necessary to their case. The persecutions of Saints that are described in
the Revelation (they say) are Saints that were already here when the Antichrist
took power. In fact, it appears (to me) that if it can be proven that
there are AFTER-RAPTURE repentances and conversions, the entire
Pre-Wrath argument falls apart, for it appears to be
totally sustained on this one premise. There ARE
(obviously) Christians that are persecuted during at least the earlier parts of
the Tribulation period - the question then is: Where did they come
from?
I recently asked a Pre-Wrath advocate to produce some scripture to prove that
no one could repent and be saved after the Rapture - his answer to me was
TO challenge me to produce a scripture that says that they
could! WELL, I know of no text in the Book Of Revelation that
reports particular conversions, but I think the onus is on the
other side in this matter. Since when, as long as men are alive, is
there no possibility for any man to be saved?
I insist that the responsibility to PROVE that no one can repent and be
converted after the Rapture lays with the Pre-Wrath crowd, and that it
is more natural to presume that after the Rapture does happen, that some
(maybe many) men and women will realize that their world and their lives in
it are about to end, and they will then (and desperately) turn to Christ
and cling to Him. Many have been brought to sobriety and repentance
through the sight or experience of tragedy. There are some movies
that have been made that picture the consternation of those who were "left
behind"; the chief plot of the movies being their remorse, their
repentance, their struggles to survive and their martrydom. The
scenes on the earth after the Rapture are unimaginable to me without
the image of people who then repent and turn fully to Christ.
(Rev 12:11
KJV) And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the
word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
The entire Pre-Wrath argument appears to be based on the idea that no one can
be converted after the Rapture. Therefore, they place the Rapture
somewhere in the midst of the Tribulation, so that there will be Christians
around for the Antichrist to persecute during the first months or years.
The question is finally, whether those described above who die as martyrs under
the Antichrist could be after Rapture converts, or are they all people who
were saved BEFORE the Rapture? I see no reason to suggest
that no one can or will be saved after the
Rapture. I also believe that all the real Christians on the earth for any
of the Tribulation will die, either from natural
causes or as martyrs - so that no real Christians will enter The Millennium in
natural bodies - but they will all be resurrected and glorified. In
other words, to be saved AFTER the Rapture is also a death sentence, for the
Revelation gives no hint of any Saints that escape these persecutions
and survive the Tribulation to enter the commencement of the
Millennial Kingdom in their natural bodies. It may well be that many Saints
will die of natural causes in the mercy of God, to grant them an escape from
the horrors of these persecutions. I think especially of child-converts
in this respect.
Jesus
did say: (John 8:51 KJV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, If
a man keep my saying, he shall never see death. I BELIEVE
THAT ALL CHRISTIANS ARE SPARED THE HORRORS OF DEATH..... and so
it shall be that even those who die by torture during The Tribulation will
be supernaturally comforted out of this world; as was Stephen the Deacon, who
while being bludgeoned to death with stones, was of sufficient calmness and
presense of mind to forgive his tormenters. (Acts 7:60 KJV) And
he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their
charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
Lastly...... Luke 21:36 suggests that something more than
being "the elect" is required to escape all in the
Rapture:
(Luke 21:36
KJV) Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted
worthy to escape all these things that shall
come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
Now...whether this implies that ALL Christians will be found watching and
praying so as to be accounted worthy - or whether it implies that some
Christians will be "left behind" to die during the Tribulation I do
not know... but this text does leave room for the idea that some
Saints or professors who are not yet truly converted - but WILL
BE - could be left behind. These also, could be among the
persecuted Saints that die as martyrs during The Tribulation. AND THEN,
either we must presume that ALL younger children on the earth were raptured
(every one) - or that none among them would have gotten saved. Whenever
the Rapture does happen, there will be children of every age on the earth. I do
believe that special grace and power will be supplied to those who need to
endure this terrible time - so that in the end, The Tribulation Saints will NOT
have really had it any harder in this life than the rest of us.
Psalm 35:27
just another
Christian, and,
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John 4:6
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